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Re: wretched C++ (Was: Ousterhout and Tcl lost the plot with latest pape

To: scsh-news@martigny.ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: wretched C++ (Was: Ousterhout and Tcl lost the plot with latest paper)
From: Thant Tessman <thant@nospam.acm.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:26:24 -0700
Organization: meer.net
David Thornley wrote:

> OK, looks like templates and RTTI.  These aren't exactly the latest
> features in the draft standard, but I don't expect them to be
> completely stable yet.

According to section 5.2.7 of the proposed C++ standard, in order for 
dynamic_cast<T> to work, T must be a "complete" class--hence
the need for an explicit instantiation of T if it is a template.
This is an aspect of the language, not the compiler.

The section doesn't make clear whether the compiler has an obligation
to warn if T is an incomplete class.  But even if it did, I'm writing
a toolkit and I resent the fact that its users (who aren't going to
be as familiar with C++'s quirks as I am) are going to have to know 
and remember to use mysterious incantations in order for stuff to work.


> OK, so your compiler doesn't support the draft ANSI standard,
> and doesn't provide warnings or clues.  This looks like an
> implementation problem to me.  In particular, I don't think
> it's actually Stroustrup's fault you spent hours figuring this
> out.  [...]

I admit haven't used many C++ compilers, (I don't program for PCs,
just SGIs and (rarely) Macs) but I have yet to use a C++ compiler 
that worked as advertised, let alone supported the draft ANSI standard.  
I've said before that the only thing I can imagine being worse than 
programming in C++ is trying to implement C++.  And this *is* 
Stroustrup's fault.

I'll let someone else address the comparison to Lisp.

-thant

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